Some random footnotes, in part in response to HN quips:
1) Travel: although the distances are notionally larger, we almost certainly spend less time in traffic than we did in the SF Bay Area. This notably includes taking kids to school. So in a way, many services and attractions feel closer, even though they are farther away.
2) Connectivity: this is a major issue for rural land; FCC broadband maps are brazen lies used to justify pocketing billions in federal grants. The only good choice is Starlink - which, weirdly, doesn't qualify as "broadband" per the FCC.
3) Kids' social life: someone on HN asked why we're denying the perks of urban life to kids if I valued that highly in my earlier years. First, you don't get the urban experience in the SF Bay Area: SV kids are chaperoned from one planned activity to another and get little unsupervised social time. Second, our kids are their own people, and I don't think they are bummed out about the move - especially since we aren't exactly cut off from the rest of the world. They go to schools and major metro areas (Seattle, Portland, etc) are just a short flight away.
4) Expenses, necessity vs convenience: a person on HN pointed out that some of things I describe are "luxuries"; for example, you don't need to be able to flush the toilet during a day-long power outage, and you need to plow the entire driveway if you park your car by the county-maintained road, then walk through two feet of snow. I mean, yes: you can always live a more miserable and perilous life. I'm not describing what it would take to survive; I'm talking about what it takes to approximate the baseline of normal urban / suburban life.
5) The "you did this to yourself" angle: correct! I'm not complaining; I think the only real thrust of the article is "here's what the influencers don't tell you when trying to peddle the idea of living in the woods".
6) "That image captioned 'visit from the fun police' is a bit off the mark. I don't like disclaimer labels everywhere either, but this one is at least defensible. Loaders generally use flexible hoses, which can burst suddenly and then the unsupported bucket/load just drops." - Sir, this is a Wendy's.
The influencers are too busy watching their screens and followers to evaluate the topic of living on the woods.
With distance to the city life just tastes different. It reminds that a human basic needs are food and water, a warm shelter... Everything you get extra is thanks to a God's grace.
It seems like the best compromise is to live in a traditional Eastern European village, where you're not in the suburbs, but have some neighbours reasonably close to help you if you need it.
I enjoy reading your articles written in this style. My wife grew up on a farm, and she tells me that she would enjoy living a lifestyle where you live off what you grow yourself. When I think back to my childhood at my grandparents' place in the countryside, most of what we ate was produced by them. Am I correct in understanding that you left your job in IT and took up homesteading, completely changing your lifestyle? Or are you still working remotely, but in a different place, with different responsibilities?
My family and I have two gardens where we grow our own food. We’re not self-sufficient, of course, but during the summer we practically don't buy any fruits or vegetables. This also got me into DIY, and there's definitely a lot of joy in building something with my son in the workshop rather than spending time in front of a game console.
Do you also grow your own food and raise animals, like chickens etc.?
We're not living off the land. If you want real self-sufficiency, then it's a ton of backbreaking work - especially if you don't want to "cheat" with irrigation, fertilizers, or diesel-chugging heavy machinery. It takes something like 3 tons of potatoes or corn per year to feed a family.
If you just want to make it feel nice, then you know... it's just suburban gardening on a slightly larger scale. It's a nice hobby, but you're still gonna be buying groceries. And we're essentially on that boat.
I am taking a break from work. I'm still doing some small things, but nothing 9-to-5.
Okay, thanks for clarifying. I have now a better picture of the whole situation. The scale is completely different than in the EU. I've only seen New York and Chicago, but it's a completely different experience to visit the U.S. for 2-3 weeks compared to living there every day.
Anyway, if you're looking for inspiration for writing, it would be very interesting to read about your workshop. I suppose you use your own wood—how do you dry it? What kind of tools are you using? What kind of woodworking projects do you make, etc.?
How did you narrow down on this exact location other than "rural with a view?" There are a lot of places like that. I'm sure there were other factors in mind (schools, proximity to civ, weather, etc.) and I'm curious how you figured out that this best matched your criteria.
The actual shopping process: travel. We visited a fair number of states over the years, so we had a general sense of how they look. We then took a long Amtrak ride to check out some others; and once we narrowed it down to the PNW, we went on an extended road trip to visit a number of towns.
After that, we reached out to local real estate agents and my wife went on a second trip to check out some matching listings in two states. I think we narrowed it down to three parcels and made an offer on the current one. The rural market was pretty lethargic back then; most listings were on the market for 100+ days, so we just used a snapshot-in-time approach instead of waiting for something to materialize.
Other than price, our basic criteria was yeah, a sensible climate (trying to avoid places that get very little precipitation or are windy in the winter), some proximity to services, reasonable road situation, sufficient acreage (preferably with privacy and some water on the property), and no weird restrictions attached (some cheap parcels are zoned weird, have conservation easements, are on tribal land, etc). There's also a lot of things you should check around water rights, legal access, etc.
Thanks! I'm working on a project to streamline preferences like this digitally so you don't need the whole Amtrak, extended road trip, can cast a wider net and find unknown gems. This should help.
Always interested to hear your experiences with this topic as I'm in the same boat as you were, splitting time between Bay suburbs and a rural snow forested acreage, but in CA.
To put things in context: from your story, it seems that "village life" on the US West Coast, somewhere in the north, means "life in the wilderness" by European standards. I've watched a lot of videos by people who love this lifestyle, and I have to admit that we could do with more areas like this in Europe, in every country (because there are some where this is no longer an option, e.g. the Netherlands) - there would be more people who aren't blinded by various urban legends about natural, healthy life, bambism, and pseudo-ecology.
Yeah. There are relatively few parts of Europe where you could get an approximation of that, because population density is higher and the distances are shorter. I'm sure you can have that in parts of Iceland, much of Greenland - but I don't think it exists to any real extent in PL, DE, or NL.
Where's your nearest farmer's co-op? The absolute best thing about living the country life in Switzerland is shopping at Landi. Cheap, high quality household items for thrifty farm wives. And as a kid, my favorite place to go with my mom was the Farmer's co-op, the smell of rabbit feed still brings back memories.
Quick question, since you have enough space, why not a beefy battery backup + solar? I'm not saying it would be financially profitable, but if you have power failures often, it would possibly pay itself in convenience terms.
For solar, we usually have snow on the roof November to April. It's a lot of money to spend on a solution that only works 50% of the time - and the roof would be a pain to clear. There's not much to be saved on electricity bills either - we have cheap hydro power, our monthly bills are around $80-$100 (and we have an electric car).
Battery backup - mostly boils down to cost and utility. Battery tech keeps improving, but right now, a Powerwall gives you fewer kW, has a shorter run time, and can't be refueled on the fly. It probably won't last as long as a generator, too.
This was a good read. This topic would probably make an excellent next book: just like prepping, it's hard to get good information about what it really takes to switch to this lifestyle.
I have exceptional feelings for late 90s. They are my college times, that smell soldering paste, GNU/Linux, reverse engineering and apcoh usenet group. I remember once there was a news saying that You wrote own OS within a week, that was later on published in Linux+ magazine (afair).
I have spent enough time to be aware of how radios work and what unexpected situations You may encounter while prototyping of an SMPS power supply. Apart of an electronic and computer engineering we are all human beings. I am more wondering what path have You been through and how are You doing there, hence my survey vote was quite obvious. It's quite a time, enough for a biography
It seems like a lot of these things are region or state-specific? I grew up in a semi-rural area in upstate New York and my mother still lives there. Living way back from the road doesn't seem like something most people do there, I'd guess to avoid issues with long driveways? But there are similar jobs, at a smaller scale.
The house I grew up in has its own water and sewer, but shoveling the driveway is pretty feasible and often a helpful neighbor will plow it. She pays someone to mow the very large lawn nowadays; when I was a kid it was our job. We had problems with beavers, mostly on the property downstream, but she had to pay someone to take out some trees they gnawed on.
Yeah. The Western frontier is sparsely populated compared to the east, in part because it was tamed much later, and in part because the federal government owns ~50% of it. Also, historically, you needed a lot more land down here to survive.
And of course, climate plays a huge role. If you own land in Hawaii, you probably don't worry about snow all that much.
Still, rural PNW is a fairly major destination for techies right now, next to the suburbs in states such as Texas.
Computers certainly aren't the be all end all, as much as we seem dependent on them. Clearly they've proven very disruptive when something goes wrong. Glad to hear that you are enjoying the great outdoors!
Some random footnotes, in part in response to HN quips:
1) Travel: although the distances are notionally larger, we almost certainly spend less time in traffic than we did in the SF Bay Area. This notably includes taking kids to school. So in a way, many services and attractions feel closer, even though they are farther away.
2) Connectivity: this is a major issue for rural land; FCC broadband maps are brazen lies used to justify pocketing billions in federal grants. The only good choice is Starlink - which, weirdly, doesn't qualify as "broadband" per the FCC.
3) Kids' social life: someone on HN asked why we're denying the perks of urban life to kids if I valued that highly in my earlier years. First, you don't get the urban experience in the SF Bay Area: SV kids are chaperoned from one planned activity to another and get little unsupervised social time. Second, our kids are their own people, and I don't think they are bummed out about the move - especially since we aren't exactly cut off from the rest of the world. They go to schools and major metro areas (Seattle, Portland, etc) are just a short flight away.
4) Expenses, necessity vs convenience: a person on HN pointed out that some of things I describe are "luxuries"; for example, you don't need to be able to flush the toilet during a day-long power outage, and you need to plow the entire driveway if you park your car by the county-maintained road, then walk through two feet of snow. I mean, yes: you can always live a more miserable and perilous life. I'm not describing what it would take to survive; I'm talking about what it takes to approximate the baseline of normal urban / suburban life.
5) The "you did this to yourself" angle: correct! I'm not complaining; I think the only real thrust of the article is "here's what the influencers don't tell you when trying to peddle the idea of living in the woods".
6) "That image captioned 'visit from the fun police' is a bit off the mark. I don't like disclaimer labels everywhere either, but this one is at least defensible. Loaders generally use flexible hoses, which can burst suddenly and then the unsupported bucket/load just drops." - Sir, this is a Wendy's.
The influencers are too busy watching their screens and followers to evaluate the topic of living on the woods.
With distance to the city life just tastes different. It reminds that a human basic needs are food and water, a warm shelter... Everything you get extra is thanks to a God's grace.
Brgds Mike
It seems like the best compromise is to live in a traditional Eastern European village, where you're not in the suburbs, but have some neighbours reasonably close to help you if you need it.
I enjoy reading your articles written in this style. My wife grew up on a farm, and she tells me that she would enjoy living a lifestyle where you live off what you grow yourself. When I think back to my childhood at my grandparents' place in the countryside, most of what we ate was produced by them. Am I correct in understanding that you left your job in IT and took up homesteading, completely changing your lifestyle? Or are you still working remotely, but in a different place, with different responsibilities?
My family and I have two gardens where we grow our own food. We’re not self-sufficient, of course, but during the summer we practically don't buy any fruits or vegetables. This also got me into DIY, and there's definitely a lot of joy in building something with my son in the workshop rather than spending time in front of a game console.
Do you also grow your own food and raise animals, like chickens etc.?
We're not living off the land. If you want real self-sufficiency, then it's a ton of backbreaking work - especially if you don't want to "cheat" with irrigation, fertilizers, or diesel-chugging heavy machinery. It takes something like 3 tons of potatoes or corn per year to feed a family.
If you just want to make it feel nice, then you know... it's just suburban gardening on a slightly larger scale. It's a nice hobby, but you're still gonna be buying groceries. And we're essentially on that boat.
I am taking a break from work. I'm still doing some small things, but nothing 9-to-5.
Okay, thanks for clarifying. I have now a better picture of the whole situation. The scale is completely different than in the EU. I've only seen New York and Chicago, but it's a completely different experience to visit the U.S. for 2-3 weeks compared to living there every day.
Anyway, if you're looking for inspiration for writing, it would be very interesting to read about your workshop. I suppose you use your own wood—how do you dry it? What kind of tools are you using? What kind of woodworking projects do you make, etc.?
How did you narrow down on this exact location other than "rural with a view?" There are a lot of places like that. I'm sure there were other factors in mind (schools, proximity to civ, weather, etc.) and I'm curious how you figured out that this best matched your criteria.
The actual shopping process: travel. We visited a fair number of states over the years, so we had a general sense of how they look. We then took a long Amtrak ride to check out some others; and once we narrowed it down to the PNW, we went on an extended road trip to visit a number of towns.
After that, we reached out to local real estate agents and my wife went on a second trip to check out some matching listings in two states. I think we narrowed it down to three parcels and made an offer on the current one. The rural market was pretty lethargic back then; most listings were on the market for 100+ days, so we just used a snapshot-in-time approach instead of waiting for something to materialize.
Other than price, our basic criteria was yeah, a sensible climate (trying to avoid places that get very little precipitation or are windy in the winter), some proximity to services, reasonable road situation, sufficient acreage (preferably with privacy and some water on the property), and no weird restrictions attached (some cheap parcels are zoned weird, have conservation easements, are on tribal land, etc). There's also a lot of things you should check around water rights, legal access, etc.
Thanks! I'm working on a project to streamline preferences like this digitally so you don't need the whole Amtrak, extended road trip, can cast a wider net and find unknown gems. This should help.
Always interested to hear your experiences with this topic as I'm in the same boat as you were, splitting time between Bay suburbs and a rural snow forested acreage, but in CA.
To put things in context: from your story, it seems that "village life" on the US West Coast, somewhere in the north, means "life in the wilderness" by European standards. I've watched a lot of videos by people who love this lifestyle, and I have to admit that we could do with more areas like this in Europe, in every country (because there are some where this is no longer an option, e.g. the Netherlands) - there would be more people who aren't blinded by various urban legends about natural, healthy life, bambism, and pseudo-ecology.
Yeah. There are relatively few parts of Europe where you could get an approximation of that, because population density is higher and the distances are shorter. I'm sure you can have that in parts of Iceland, much of Greenland - but I don't think it exists to any real extent in PL, DE, or NL.
Where's your nearest farmer's co-op? The absolute best thing about living the country life in Switzerland is shopping at Landi. Cheap, high quality household items for thrifty farm wives. And as a kid, my favorite place to go with my mom was the Farmer's co-op, the smell of rabbit feed still brings back memories.
Quick question, since you have enough space, why not a beefy battery backup + solar? I'm not saying it would be financially profitable, but if you have power failures often, it would possibly pay itself in convenience terms.
For solar, we usually have snow on the roof November to April. It's a lot of money to spend on a solution that only works 50% of the time - and the roof would be a pain to clear. There's not much to be saved on electricity bills either - we have cheap hydro power, our monthly bills are around $80-$100 (and we have an electric car).
Battery backup - mostly boils down to cost and utility. Battery tech keeps improving, but right now, a Powerwall gives you fewer kW, has a shorter run time, and can't be refueled on the fly. It probably won't last as long as a generator, too.
Interesting about how much snow you get (nice!).
From the later, "has a shorter runtime", that also means your power failures are not 1-2 hours, but longer. Then yes, a generator makes sense.
This was a good read. This topic would probably make an excellent next book: just like prepping, it's hard to get good information about what it really takes to switch to this lifestyle.
Have a backup, get second truck 😉
I've voted for "rural living tips".
I have exceptional feelings for late 90s. They are my college times, that smell soldering paste, GNU/Linux, reverse engineering and apcoh usenet group. I remember once there was a news saying that You wrote own OS within a week, that was later on published in Linux+ magazine (afair).
I have spent enough time to be aware of how radios work and what unexpected situations You may encounter while prototyping of an SMPS power supply. Apart of an electronic and computer engineering we are all human beings. I am more wondering what path have You been through and how are You doing there, hence my survey vote was quite obvious. It's quite a time, enough for a biography
It seems like a lot of these things are region or state-specific? I grew up in a semi-rural area in upstate New York and my mother still lives there. Living way back from the road doesn't seem like something most people do there, I'd guess to avoid issues with long driveways? But there are similar jobs, at a smaller scale.
The house I grew up in has its own water and sewer, but shoveling the driveway is pretty feasible and often a helpful neighbor will plow it. She pays someone to mow the very large lawn nowadays; when I was a kid it was our job. We had problems with beavers, mostly on the property downstream, but she had to pay someone to take out some trees they gnawed on.
Yeah. The Western frontier is sparsely populated compared to the east, in part because it was tamed much later, and in part because the federal government owns ~50% of it. Also, historically, you needed a lot more land down here to survive.
And of course, climate plays a huge role. If you own land in Hawaii, you probably don't worry about snow all that much.
Still, rural PNW is a fairly major destination for techies right now, next to the suburbs in states such as Texas.
Computers certainly aren't the be all end all, as much as we seem dependent on them. Clearly they've proven very disruptive when something goes wrong. Glad to hear that you are enjoying the great outdoors!